The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

If I may dust off an old thread...

I have gone through everything I could find about the C-32B’s on several forums, checked 200 pics and very helpful: I checked the last year of ModeS/ADS-B-flight history of all frames involved ( flight-data.adsbexchange.com ). Summarizing :

00-9001 and 02-4452, the ones with just a flag and a serial, operate out of mcGuire, and regulary fly together at the same time.
I suspect these two are the "real" FEST frames. Makes sense with one aircraft known to be paid for in the FY 2000 budget, and one in 2002. Most sources assume 00-9001 is c/n 25494 and 02-4452 is c/n 25493.

Just looking at the top of the fusulage they must be two different frames as the others, and they cannot be the same frame.
Some antennas were added during the life of these aircraft. They don't disappear again over time, and there are several pics of one aircraft with a new antenna where the other one is seen still without it:

Image

00-9001 got antenna #2 between 05/2006 and 11/2007, #1 early 2012, #3 late 2014, and #4 early 2017.
02-4452 got antenna #2 between 11/2005 and 06/2006, #1 and #3 mid 2013, and #4 between mid 2015 and early 2016.

The other 757/C-32B's lack #1, #2 and #4.

On 02-4452 the flag moved one window forward in 2013 (when it got antenna #1 and #3?), but it has moved back to its old position in 2015/2016.





The other three military aircraft, 02-5001, 98-6006 and 99-6143, carry a roundel and US AIR FORCE titles, operate out of Eglin, FL and.... so do the Comco aircraft N226G and N610G, both officially registered to L-3. As suggested by others, I am convinced the Comco aircraft are highly involved as also being these three C-32's, but who knows if another frame is also part of the story...

The flight history at adsbexchange looks pretty complete; a few flights may be missing but the flights almost always start and end around Eglin. The history of the last 12 months of the three Eglin-based C-32B's and both Comco aircraft can be flown with two airframes. However, this would involve regular changing between serials and sometimes liveries, varying from about once, to up to 5 changes in a month’s time. The required changes do fit in the schedule during a stop at Eglin.

For over a dozen flights where ADS-B data could be checked against a photo, ADS-B regs as known by adsbexchange (and Live Mil Mode-S) were correct for all frames (e.g. PlaneFinder follows only AE0442(00-9001) and AE0438, but has that hexcode listed as 98-6006 instead of 02-4452).

Now this is suspicious: On two occasions last year the hexcode changed in-flight from a Comco aircraft to a C32-serial and back!
This together with a change in FlightID and squawk so ATC must have noticed/been aware. Position, altitude and time are too close for another explanation:

On the 9th of November 2016, the hexcode temporarily swapped from N226G to 02-5001:
Image

And on the 8th of March 2017, the hexcode swapped between N226G and 99-6143:
Image
(the red dots start at 00:00 utc, the aircraft came from Opa Locka)






The two Comco aircraft differ externally by window count: like the two McGuire-frames, N226G always has 13 windows forward both sides, and 17 windows in the middle on the LH-side. N610G has 12 windows here (the 13th plugged), and 19 windows in the middle LH-side. Also, N610G has a fourth probe on the RH side of the nose, apparently an ice detector.

99-6143 with 17/13 windows, no ice-detector(like N226G):
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7068734
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8133460

..and with 19/12 windows and the ice detector(like N610G):
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7612531
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7477513


Some pics of 02-5001 with 17/13 windows, no ice-detector(like N226G):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/planephot ... Cj7-5hBaa7
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fisherbra ... Cj7-5hBaa7

..and with 19/12 windows and the ice detector(like N610G):
http://paineairport.com/images/kpae11206.png
http://paineairport.com/kpae11205.htm

The 17/13 and 19/12-configurations have changed back and forth several times with these serials.

98-6006 has only started showing up again from 2013, and I could only find pics with 19/12 windows and the ice detector, like N610G:
I could not find any pics of 98-6006 before 2013, and of 02-5001 before 2007, although both regs have been reported seen as early as 2000. Difficult to say if these were the same aircraft as today, or that the McGuire-frames were involved back then.



With increased contrast it becomes visible that the roundel is something like a square sticker below the 6,7 and 8th window counting back.
Image


Around 2015/2016 the Comco aircraft got a new colourscheme but previously you could just see a lighter area on the same spot as the sticker, covering the flag.
Image


The flag itself is at the exact same spot as the two McGuire-aircraft, making me wonder if that was a deliberate attempt to cause confusion with those aircraft, or if they might have been changed around in earlier times.

And with this tail in high contrast, is that COMCO wiped out?
Image
I could not recreate this with other pictures though.


We know C-32B’s can refuel in-flight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0XVjOG7Ebg

This C-32B crew training document mentions training for air-to-air refuelling:
http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/produ ... c-3bv2.pdf

For most regs/serials, except 98-6006 and 02-5001 (just no good close-ups) but including the Comco's (civilian!?), I have found pics where the aerial refueling point seems visible. It is easier to spot on older pics.

00-9001:
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/ ... ing-c-32b/
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/6623542

02-4452:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/5619622
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... A/861099/L
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... /2641651/L

99-6143:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8355009 (17/13w)

N226G:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/6396567
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/6498732

N610G:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/371489




My conclusion is that when 02-5001, 98-6006 or 99-6143 have 19/12 windows and the ice probe, it is probably N610G, and with 17/13 windows it is likely to be N226G in disguise.

It would be interesting to know more about N144DC though, also a RR-powered B757, ex NASA and now registered with L-3, like the two Comco-aircraft. No recent flight history or pics found...
N903TB is a different B757 registered with L-3, but that one has winglets and P&W engines instead of RR .

L.
Last edited by n5205e00421 on 08 Aug 2017, 15:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by Melchior Timmers »

WoW, Thanks for your research, very nice to read and sounds very likely being the truth..
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by wamovements »

In case you are interested, I can send you some pictures of 86006 at Ramstein on 26 feb 2000
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by cis »

Very nice investigated !!!
:respect:

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by pilotman6012 »

Speaking of the others N903TB the newest B-757 for L-3 fleet is just off Greenville,TX (KGVT),Majors Field,where mods take place on several different airframes.MALT 72 (C-32B) 00-9001 AE0443 inbound Eglin as i speak.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by Le Addeur noir »

pilotman6012 wrote:Speaking of the others N903TB the newest B-757 for L-3 fleet is just off Greenville,TX (KGVT),Majors Field,where mods take place on several different airframes.MALT 72 (C-32B) 00-9001 AE0443 inbound Eglin as i speak.
It's quite noticeable the callsigns of 00-9001 and 02-4452 nearly always seem to end in numbers in the 7x range.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

pilotman6012 wrote:MALT 72 (C-32B) 00-9001 AE0443 inbound Eglin as i speak.
Oh dear, a McGuire frame to Eglin. That mixes up my theory. :roll: Fortunately it was there only for two hours.. From there it actually passed just north of the Netherlands this morning, after a stop in Prestwick. It landed in Constanta, Romania. I will continue checking pics and the flight history to see if I can find out more.

00-9001 and 02-4452 do a lot of "local" flights out of McGuire staying for hours at about 20000', mainly to the west and north, with TERRA callsigns and these not always have a 7 in it.

Yep, Majors Field looks like an interesting place: http://www.majorsfieldspyplanes.com/white-ghost.html
Also some pics of N903TB here, clearly a different frame.

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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by rh226 »

It was reported on FighterControl that the TransAtlantic flight of MALT72 00-9001 last night originated from KHRT Hurlburt Field, not Eglin AFB.

This information would have been obtained from Inmarsat.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

rh226 wrote:It was reported on FighterControl that the TransAtlantic flight of MALT72 00-9001 last night originated from KHRT Hurlburt Field, not Eglin AFB.
It looks like that indeed. The flight history at AdsbExchange doesn't continue all the way to touchdown and you really have to zoom in for this one, as the two airfields are only 10 miles apart. I have seen some flights to Duke airfield as well, an auxiliary field to the north.

At the moment both Comco aircraft should be at IAD(Washington Dulles). N610G arrived 20/7 from LAS, SEA and somewhere near Moses Lake. N226G arrived from Eglin 21/7. 02-5001 did a local flight 20/7 around Eglin allowing only 1h30 to "change" to N226G before the IAD-flight. Just switching on a different transponder can create this flight history (see the inflight changes..) but I very much wonder how that 02-5001-flight looked like from the outside. Can they re-sticker that quickly, was it already done with the other transponder on, or is there still another frame involved?

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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by pilotman6012 »

Two C-32B up at this time,00-9001 weirdly is showing REACH 1002 as callsign and 02-5001 is up off West Virginia Coast and also N226G was up earlier in a different location.
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

pilotman6012 wrote:..and 02-5001 is up off West Virginia Coast and also N226G was up earlier in a different location.
N610G returned to the Eglin area about 10 hours before 02-5001 departed... :roll:
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by Joost Michiels »

Saw Malta 72 heading West on ADSB 1230ish routing roughly Frankfurter- Liege- Oostende - UK. Flight should have come out of Papa.
Thought it showed 00-9001 , can't remember for sure....
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by pjotrtje »

Joost Michiels wrote:Saw Malta 72 heading West on ADSB 1230ish routing roughly Frankfurter- Liege- Oostende - UK. Flight should have come out of Papa.
Thought it showed 00-9001 , can't remember for sure....
Yes, MALT72 now (22:05 CEST) over Saint Johns, 00-9001 it is (according to ADS-B Exchange)

TIKE07 is now overhead Raleigh, showing 02-5001...
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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

Some more bits of info:

00-9001 Did show antenna #4 now on a recent photo in Shannon, so it has the same rooftop as 02-4452 again (edited earlier post).
00-9001 Was at Greenville Majors Field from 5/1/2017 until 20/6/2017 so I guess it was installed then.

I checked my own SBS-history and since 11/2006 I have picked up in the Netherlands:
00-9001 56x 2007-2016
02-4452 52x 2006-2016
02-5001 0x
98-6006 8x 2013-2017
99-6143 50x 2009-2016
N226G 34x 2007-2009
N610G 64x 2006-2009, and visit AMS 2012

00-9001 And 02-4452 did not always transmit a FlightID/Callsign but except for one Reach-callsign (RCH1001) there were 36 callsigns of which every one was indeed in the 7x-range BROCK70,HIPPY77,TITUS78,ETHAN76, etc) This doesn't seem to work with the TERRA-callsigns on local flights seen on adsb-exchange.

98-6006 And 99-6143 used similar sounding callsigns but numbers ranging from 11 until 91, also one 7x-one: 77.

So not a single flight of 02-5001 which is quite active inside the US, and many Comco-flights until 2009, but no recent ones.

Since 2015 I also log ACARS and VDL-2 (newer ACARS-like datalink system):
AE0443 (00-9001) also used ID 00-9001 on ACARS 1/6/2016.
AE0449 (02-4452) also used AE0449 on VDL2 10/8/2016, and ID 02-4452 on ACARS 20/8/2016
AE0438 (98-6006) also used AE0438 on VDL2 28/6/2017.
AE0446 (99-6143) also used AE0446 on VDL2 2/8/2016, with “96143” in message content.


To confirm 00-9001 and 02-4452 run an isolated operation out of McGuire, unrelated to the others, and that in total more than two frames must be involved I checked some days where both McGuire-frames were flying on adsb-exchange:

On 28-30/11/2016 00-9001 did several local flights out of McGuire, and 02-4452 had started a 9-day trip to the Middle-East.
On 29/11/2016 98-6006 arrived in Eglin around 1500utc from a few days in the Caribbean and Florida (photo Patrick AFB with 19 windows left side).
On 29/11/2016 02-5001 departed Eglin 2330utc probably for a transfer to nextdoor's Duke Field, continuing the next day at 1400utc for an 8-day trip through the US...Well it disappeared starting descent north of Las vegas 1/12 and re-appeared climbing at the same spot 6/12... This could be a continuation of 98-6006 above with just a new serial and hexcode.
On 30/11/2016 99-6143 departed Eglin around 2300utc to Greenville Majors for 13 days (photo with 17 windows left side).

On 24/7/2017 00-9001, 02-4452, 02-5001 and N226G were flying.
On 6/7/2017 00-9001, 02-4452, 02-5001 and N610G were flying.

Then a look at Google Earth; Browsing through the history the aircraft at McGuire are visible at 40.0231 -74.6069 and 40.0291 -74.5991. On the photo dated 12-2010 two 757's are parked together.
Then Eglin: At 30.4922 -86.5008 one 757 can be seen parked at the same spot in 2003,2006,2007,2010,2012. There seems only limited hangarspace availabe and accessible to hide a fleet of 47x38m 757's.

Edit: one addition to the windowcounting-story: I must have focussed on the RH side too much but the 13 and 12 windows for N226G resp N610G also apply to the front LH side. I checked about a hunderd Comco-pics again from 2004 until 2017. Only one pic of N610G doesn't fit the story: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Comco/Bo ... /1410563/L Here N610G has 13+17 instead of 12+19 windows on the left, but the reg is not visible so it might be N226G logged under N610G. Or this would be the only evidence of N226G and N610G being mixed up as well.

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Re: The 'black' USAF C-32Bs

Post by n5205e00421 »

02-4452 Overflew the south of the Netherlands this morning as RUSK74 around 11:15lt, coming from Bucharest. It was cleared to MAM (Marham) and descended from FL360 to FL260. It was almost certainly refueled by KC-135 60-0333 / QID743 between there and west of Newcastle, after which it climbed again.

@wamovements, I had sent you a PM; could you send/post your pics of 98-6006 in 2000? It is indeed likely to have been an earlier ID of 02-4452, as 00-9001 was then still with Avianca, and N226G was still with Air Transat.
If it had 12+19(left) windows it could have been N610G, still N1018N then. That aircraft's early history seems vague; registered to "Starflite", "ASNET" and Raytheon between 1999 and 2002, no pics on the internet. It first appeared as Comco in 2002. Then there is also a report of 02-5001 at Ramstein 18/11/2000....

Starflite and/or L-3 seem the current owners of ex-NASA's N144DC, but no present sightings, photos or flight history...

Another thing: These plates/sensors/antennas(?).. :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/planephot ... P2B-4PejJu
...only seem to be installed on "military" 757's. All seven C-32B/Comco-serials have them. The first 4 factory-delivered VC-32A's also have them, not the later second-hand ones. The New Zealand AF 757's have the aft ones, and the Argentinian, Mexican and Yemen(ex Uzbekistan) 757 only have the forward ones.
I couldn't find them on airline- or privately-operated 757's, although I haven't checked every single 757 built.

Finally; The Dept of Justice now operates an ex-AA B757, N119NA, which looks a little bit similar:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8360059
Without a door behind the wing, and with winglets, it is clearly a different aircraft.

L.
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