Hello,
I am having difficulty identifying any aircraft from the Scramble position descriptions in the magazine. I note these myself from GPS and use GE a lot but can not understand how some of these lat / long positions are identified - for example, I always believed that the last two, should never be higher than 59.
I have yet to find an aircaft using any from the mag though I find them from descriptions. An understanding of Scramble's understanding would be welcome.
Regards
Rick
Google earth positioning
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Vulture One
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Rick,
Other editors than me put these in the mag, but I looked up some and here's how it works: these are decimal degrees. They are less intuitive than the 'classic' format, but accepted by more software and devices than the D-M-S form. As a matter of fact, you can paste or type them right into GE.
Taking the first aircraft of our European civil W&R roundup in Scramble 348, just type n52.031515 e5.907293 into GE and there's the location outside the fence from where the Flash was seen. GE itself displays the D-M-S format as well: +52° 1' 53.45", +5° 54' 26.25" . I do see there is a bit of inconsequence in the presentation in the mag with regard to the letters (N, E etc.) but usually applications will not stumble on that (apart from typos like M i.s.o. N
). When using the conventions that North and East are +, and South and West are -, the letters can even be omitted if the correct sign is used.
Hope this helps,
Erik
Other editors than me put these in the mag, but I looked up some and here's how it works: these are decimal degrees. They are less intuitive than the 'classic' format, but accepted by more software and devices than the D-M-S form. As a matter of fact, you can paste or type them right into GE.
Taking the first aircraft of our European civil W&R roundup in Scramble 348, just type n52.031515 e5.907293 into GE and there's the location outside the fence from where the Flash was seen. GE itself displays the D-M-S format as well: +52° 1' 53.45", +5° 54' 26.25" . I do see there is a bit of inconsequence in the presentation in the mag with regard to the letters (N, E etc.) but usually applications will not stumble on that (apart from typos like M i.s.o. N
). When using the conventions that North and East are +, and South and West are -, the letters can even be omitted if the correct sign is used.Hope this helps,
Erik
What four words, Jimmy!?!
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Vulture One
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Hello Erk,
And many thanks for response. I understand what the situation is now but it strikes me that the presentation should really directly correlate with GE if you use that application.
When I am searching for an aircraft the problem I had is that I know where the approximate area is and by moving the cursor around, GE itself will tell you what the true lat/longs are and from this I was looking for points of interest. I find this much easier than typing in anything. However now knowing how they are presented shall type in wnat I see and find it works. I suspect this is not the sole query on this.
However all is clear now, thank you.
Regards
Rick
And many thanks for response. I understand what the situation is now but it strikes me that the presentation should really directly correlate with GE if you use that application.
When I am searching for an aircraft the problem I had is that I know where the approximate area is and by moving the cursor around, GE itself will tell you what the true lat/longs are and from this I was looking for points of interest. I find this much easier than typing in anything. However now knowing how they are presented shall type in wnat I see and find it works. I suspect this is not the sole query on this.
However all is clear now, thank you.
Regards
Rick
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Hi Rick,
Just would like to add that I do see your point. Personally, I am in favour of DMS format for clarity, I find it easy enough to do the conversion by a choice of means if needed. Also, I just realised that in my previous post I used Google Maps, not Earth, and saw it presented the reformatted data after a search. Granted, the decimal degrees format eliminates a lot of 'Your search returned no results' related to format errors, like typographical quotes (from documents or browsers) in stead of non-ornamental ones. In GE, one has a choice of presentation for Lat/Long through Options - 3D View.
I don't know how it is now, but until recently versions above 4.0 had less accuracy in presented co-ordinates than 4.0, which is why I am still using that one. On the other hand, few people realise what accuracy they are actually working with. In the give example of the RF-84F, the last digit after North, the sixth behind the decimal, represents (5x) 11 centimeters (5x 4 inch)... In other words: if that digit is omitted the position will be approximately 1 meter less accurate. Most positions in our line of interest are far less accurate by nature and certain given digits often do not add any real accuracy at all.
All in all, a critical look at the form and accuracy of co-ordinates given anywhere will help to avoid getting lost on the maps...
Erik
Just would like to add that I do see your point. Personally, I am in favour of DMS format for clarity, I find it easy enough to do the conversion by a choice of means if needed. Also, I just realised that in my previous post I used Google Maps, not Earth, and saw it presented the reformatted data after a search. Granted, the decimal degrees format eliminates a lot of 'Your search returned no results' related to format errors, like typographical quotes (from documents or browsers) in stead of non-ornamental ones. In GE, one has a choice of presentation for Lat/Long through Options - 3D View.
I don't know how it is now, but until recently versions above 4.0 had less accuracy in presented co-ordinates than 4.0, which is why I am still using that one. On the other hand, few people realise what accuracy they are actually working with. In the give example of the RF-84F, the last digit after North, the sixth behind the decimal, represents (5x) 11 centimeters (5x 4 inch)... In other words: if that digit is omitted the position will be approximately 1 meter less accurate. Most positions in our line of interest are far less accurate by nature and certain given digits often do not add any real accuracy at all.
All in all, a critical look at the form and accuracy of co-ordinates given anywhere will help to avoid getting lost on the maps...
Erik
What four words, Jimmy!?!
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Vulture One
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Cheers, Erik,
Anything that makes it easier, I am a big fan of. If there is information out there, use it - I and no doubt others will use it more effectively now. Wish I understood this before going to Pratica weekend.
All we now need is for vegetation to be kept down, referring back to the RF-84F! Your help, as with all my contact involving Scramble, of a level of accuracy and clarity the rest of us only strive for. Thanks.
Regs
R
Anything that makes it easier, I am a big fan of. If there is information out there, use it - I and no doubt others will use it more effectively now. Wish I understood this before going to Pratica weekend.
All we now need is for vegetation to be kept down, referring back to the RF-84F! Your help, as with all my contact involving Scramble, of a level of accuracy and clarity the rest of us only strive for. Thanks.
Regs
R
Rick! With feedback like this, we will never want to stop. 