T-33A land op Twenthe 26/3/10

[Spotter2000]

Edit: see here as well.

A Lockheed T-33A (N132GB) made a precautionary landing at Twenthe today. The aircraft was enroute from Billund, via Nordholz to Niederrhein for a fuel stop. Final destination is Hahn. The aircraft had an electrical failure and had no radio contact with any ATC station.

[frank kramer]

Well, how about that ... there's still life in the airfield! Would the pilot be old enough to remember the T-birds that, in the old days, were based there with the Jachtvliegschool ?

More importantly: anyone got any pictures? Or an ETD?

Link to newspaper item (in Dutch):

http://www.tctubantia.nl/regio/twente/6 ... wenthe.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[camel1]

Friday 19:00; The T-33 is still parked on the former civilplatform, with a covert canopy. So it will be there on saterday(morning?), giving us a chance to photograph it.

[Bassie76]

The news states that the pilot of the T-33 got apprehended because he was not in the possesion of a valid flying license.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/arti ... ding.dhtml

[techlogsigner]

I was part of the team which prepared the T-33 for the ferry flight from Denmark (Engineer). We followed the T-33 in a Piper Seneca with tools and parts.
The original plan was to fly the aircraft from Billund in Denmark (after we tested all systems the day before) to Nordholz German naval base near Cuxhafen for refuelling and from there to Niederrhein (Weeze) airport and fom there to HHN. The first leg worked well without any trouble.
Since the originally planned ferry pilot couldn´t come, a wellknown British test pilot with years of fast jet experience from the RAF and in the civilian world was hired (the new operator, who is a professional pilot with an ATPL as well and flies Boeings every day for his living, doesn´t have a type rating for the T-33 yet, so he was flying as student pilot).
The aircraft is American registered and from what I understand the Americans accept the British test pilot licence (which means that the pilot can fly ANY aircraft without needing special type ratings). Unfortunately the Dutch authorities did not share this interpretation, claiming that he would need a type rating. In any case, it was never planned to fly into the Netherlands
After T/O in Nordholz the aircraft generator tripped and could not be reset. By then Nordholz was closed (we were the last aircraft to leave the airbase before they closed for weekend).
At first this was not a problem, since we were flying VFR anyway (the weather was predicted to be ok for all the way to Weeze) and it was coordinated with Bremen FIR (the T-33 crew switched off radio intermittently to conserve energy fromn the batteries). Also, for a T-33 cruising at 220 kts, the distance from Nordholz to Weeze is only about 20 minutes.
Then the weather in Weeze turned temporarely IMC due to rainsqualls and since they could not afford to wait too long (they had more fuel than enough on board, but the batteries would not last that long), they decided to land on the longest available runway (the flaps on the T-33 work electrically). The fields on the German side of the border were all too bad weatherwise, so they decided to land in Twenthe, WHICH ACC. TO THE CURRENT MAPS AND AIP IS STILL OPEN. The crew also obeyed all procedures applicable to such a situation.
They circled the airfield, and saw people and aircraft there on the ground, but couldn´t contact the tower. Seeing the runway clear, they landed and got held by the Mareschall Chaussee. We tried to land there as well, but got told by Dutch MIL info that we had to divert to the nearest airfield in Germany (Nordholm) and then get to Twente by taxi.
The Dutch aviation police checked the aircraft and found it ok and even praised the decision to use Twenthe for a precautionary safety landing as good airmanship, but they took offense on the British test pilot not having a valid type rating for the T-33. On orders of their superior from Schipol they had to arrest him and bring him to AMS (as I said, the British and American interpretation is that a test pilot DOESN´T NEED A TYPE RATING, HE IS GOOD FOR ANY AIRCRAFT TYPE IN HIS TEST PILOT CLASS). The pilot is a flight instructor on fast jets in the UK and has flown and instructed on the T-33 before.
Now they have offered to release him on paying a fine of 2000 Euros or to face a judge on Monday, who would likely aquitt him, but going to court still is a gamble. From what I understand now the issue is that they didn´t have an entry permission into the Netherlands (since it was never planned to fly into the Netherlands, the operator never applied for one, the decision to land in Twente was solely made to avert a possible danger arising from the generator failure and the temporary IMC at the German airports).
I don´t know yet what he decided on.
The T-33 has not been confiscated. We will see that we can repair it in Twenthe ASAP and then ferry it out to HHN (obviously with the necessary paperwork.
It obviously means that we will have to bring some ground support equipment into Twente, like a GPU for starting the engine.
BTW, the Dutch police were very friendly and apparently not very happy to have to arrest the old pilot.

[Stephan Lodewijks]

Wow, that is very helpful inside information, thanks

And I hope it'll all be resolved to your satisfaction soon!

Regards,

Stephan

[ebauer]

@techlogsigner: thanks for the very interesting 'intell inside' story! It's a pity that the pilot received a ticket after doing his job well. He landed the T-bird safely at a suitable runway, only a few miles from the German border!

Let's cross fingers that this event will have a happy end for all of you!

[flying_kiwi]

Thanks for your side of the story, it's always easy to pass judgement when you're only getting information from one source (the media).
A few responses from me:

The aircraft is American registered and from what I understand the Americans accept the British test pilot licence (which means that the pilot can fly ANY aircraft without needing special type ratings).

Unfortunately this isn't correct. The British authorities use the JAR-FCL for licensing, so their rules are the same as for Denmark, the Netherlands, and most other European countries. What the Americans do accept, is that you can fly an American registered aircraft as long as you have a valid typerating for that type issued by the country that you are operating in/over {FAR 61.3 (a)(1)}. If the CAA have a testpilot license (which I've never heard of), as it wouldn't meet JAR-FCL requirements, I would expect that it would have the restriction that it can only be used in UK airspace along with other restrictions.

The fields on the German side of the border were all too bad weatherwise, so they decided to land in Twenthe, WHICH ACC. TO THE CURRENT MAPS AND AIP IS STILL OPEN. The crew also obeyed all procedures applicable to such a situation.

Correct, Twente is officially still open. The only restrictions are that the operating hours are limited (0800-1700LT Mon-Fri), and prior permission is required to land there (a planned landing, emergency landings would of course be exempt).

(as I said, the British and American interpretation is that a test pilot DOESN´T NEED A TYPE RATING, HE IS GOOD FOR ANY AIRCRAFT TYPE IN HIS TEST PILOT CLASS). The pilot is a flight instructor on fast jets in the UK and has flown and instructed on the T-33 before.

Theres no doubt he can fly the plane (and well), but this is similar to the Swedish pilot arrested recently in Amsterdam, he could fly the plane (otherwise he'd never have made captain), but his paperwork was not in order. Even if such a testpilot license for the UK exists (which I doubt), that's no guarantee that it is excepted outside of the UK.

From what I understand now the issue is that they didn´t have an entry permission into the Netherlands (since it was never planned to fly into the Netherlands, the operator never applied for one, the decision to land in Twente was solely made to avert a possible danger arising from the generator failure and the temporary IMC at the German airports).

I'm assuming (and you'll probably know whether thats the case or not), that the aircraft has a special flight permit (ie limited certificate of airworthiness), and those normally require the operator to get specific permission from each country overflown prior to the flight. As you were never planning on overflying the Netherlands, you wouldn't need this permission. Because of the emergency situation, IVW (the Dutch authorities) probably won't make too big a deal of it (although you never know with them), so now it's just a matter of getting that permission and a licensed pilot, and you should be good to go.

Either way, hopefully that will be sorted out soon, and you can get the old girl to where she belongs.

Good luck and Regards,
Yorden

[lh4468]

Opengooien die basis nu gelijk

[Bassie76]

@techlosigner

Thanks for the 'inside information'. I feel sorry for the pilot, that he is more or less treated like a criminal when he actually did a very good job.
Do you think it is possible to keep us updated concerning the repairs of the T-33 and the eventual departure? I think it would really be appreciated.

All the best.

Bas

[DaNik]

EHTW is officially closed according http://www.ais-netherlands.nl/aim/09120 ... en-GB.html

[Zwaan]

techlogsigner:

Interesting: So the T 33 departed Nordholz VFR without:

- The destination weather being within VFR weather limits?
- No suitable destination alternates with VFR weather within limits?
- No suitable take off alternate (since Nordholz was closing)?
- No extra fuel in marginal weather conditions.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And why did the Captain not ask Langen for help or advice before switching the radio off? Has a Mayday or Pan Pan call been made?

[Bassie76]

According to this newspaper article (sorry, only in Dutch) the T-33 will probably stay on the ground until the end of April .

Gestrande T33 nog paar weken aan de grond
ENSCHEDE - De Lockheed T33 die vrijdagmiddag een noodlanding moest maken op de voormalige Vliegbasis Twenthe blijft daar naar verwachting tot eind april aan de grond staan.

Dat heeft een woordvoerster van het Korps Landelijke Politie Diensten (KLPD) gistermiddag gezegd. Het toestel moet eerst worden gerepareerd voordat het weer vliegwaardig is. Daartoe is een nieuwe dynamo nodig. Een Amerikaanse piloot zal het toestel vervolgens naar Frankfurt vliegen. Daar zal het voormalige militaire toestel verder zal worden gereviseerd.

De 67-jarige Britse piloot die de noodlanding maakte, bleek niet over een geldige aantekening te beschikken. Hij is beboet.

[canberra]

Zwann, did you read techlogsigner post

- The destination weather being within VFR weather limits?
- No suitable destination alternates with VFR weather within limits?

the weather was predicted to be ok for all the way to Weeze

- No suitable take off alternate (since Nordholz was closing)?

Not sure what you mean, I guess alternate take-off field would require to get the aircraft there first

- No extra fuel in marginal weather conditions.

they had more fuel than enough on board, but the batteries would not last that long

the weather was predicted to be ok for all the way to Weeze

[Pillow]

Can anybody please be so kind and translate the newspaper-article in english for me?

Thank you.

*edit*: after reading it several times I sure understood what it's sayin'. Thank you.