Illesheim AAF (ETIK) 2013 MIL

[Sjoerd]

I just noted that there had been no topic created yet for this year, even now the year has come close to an end. Let's change that!

Later this week I will be staying near Ramstein for a couple of days and I was planning to maybe go the the Ansbach/Illesheim region too. Has anyone got any clue wether the based helo's will be parked on their ramps during/after this Christmas period? I guess flying will limited or even out of bounds, but do they have the space to hangar all helo's or can one expect still lots to be parked on the ramp to be read off?

I'm asking because it is still a 2,5hrs drive (and back) from Ramstein to Ansbach and I hate to waste that time for nothing. Off course a LOG will follow if I visited the place.

MTIA,

[Bennie]

I just noted that there had been no topic created yet for this year, even now the year has come close to an end. Let's change that!

Later this week I will be staying near Ramstein for a couple of days and I was planning to maybe go the the Ansbach/Illesheim region too. Has anyone got any clue wether the based helo's will be parked on their ramps during/after this Christmas period? I guess flying will limited or even out of bounds, but do they have the space to hangar all helo's or can one expect still lots to be parked on the ramp to be read off?

I'm asking because it is still a 2,5hrs drive (and back) from Ramstein to Ansbach and I hate to waste that time for nothing. Off course a LOG will follow if I visited the place.

MTIA,

Sjoerd, I believe Illesheim has been renamed ETIK by ICAO quite some years ago..
Unfortunately, I have no idea what you can expect these days...

[Sjoerd]

Thanks for the correction Bennie, it was copied and pasted from the previous topics without using my head any further.

[Arjan]

Hi Sjoerd,

I believe that Illesheim is pretty though from the outside, maybe if you climb some trees but still the ramp is pretty far away. Ansbach is better from the outside and I have seen aircraft and helicopters parked outside on the ramp during weekends etc before.

good luck,

Arjan

[jreijmer]

Hi Sjoerd,

I believe that Illesheim is pretty though from the outside, maybe if you climb some trees but still the ramp is pretty far away. Ansbach is better from the outside and I have seen aircraft and helicopters parked outside on the ramp during weekends etc before.

good luck,

Arjan

Sjoerd,

I've been there two times this year and there are a number of things to take into account;
Illesheim:
- Start early but not to early. This time of year the sun rises relatively late so I think when you start spotting around 9AM, you'll be able to start reading the easier ones. Because of the distance heat haze could be your enemy (even in this time of the year depending on the conditions).
- Use a very good scope! You'll need a minimum of 60x scope. Preferably even larger if possible. Take into account, serials are black on dark green so scopes like Leica, Zeiss, Nikon or Swarovski are recommended. Tripod is necessary when using these kind of scopes to have a stable platform.
- Ramps can be split in different companies. Each row represents a company starting from east to west: A,B,C co/2-159 AVN and A,B,C co/3-159 AVN. Sometimes helicopters can be found in between rows, so for most this allows you to identify to which company one belongs.
- First visit this year we were able to ID 34 and last time around 25. I think during the Christmas period all helicopters should be home except some in the hangars.

Ansbach:
- Easier to spot because you're much closer to the action and the last three of the UH-60Ls are in white.
- Also the morning preferable as you've got sun in your back.

I assume you've got all information from the Scramble airfield guides. For Illesheim, the only addition is to stay further away from the airfield at spot 2. This will bring you in a higher position which allows you to overlook the platforms much more.

Good luck!
Jeroen

[Sjoerd]

Thanks everybody, especially Jeroen for the unit info!

I might give it a shot then if weather permits it too. I've been at both bases before and know what to expect. This time better prepared for Illesheim though, as last time I couldn't find any decent spots, but I have some helpful coordinates this time.

[jreijmer]

Illesheim 6-11-2013

AH-64D 04-05442,10-05620 C co/3-159th Avn.
AH-64D 04-(0543)3,(02-05)343,(04-05)421 C co/3-159th Avn.
AH-64D 04-05460,08-05557,06-07021 ,04-05430 B co/3-159th Avn.
AH-64D 08-05551,02-05302 A co/3-159th Avn.
AH-64D 03-05... O,09-05587□ C, B co/2-159th Avn.
AH-64D 03-05352□,05-07001□,04-05445□,09-05580□,03-05(3)84□ B co/2-159th Avn.
AH-64D 04-.... ∆,05-05485 ∆,02-05(3)26 ∆ A co/2-159th Avn.
AH-64D 03-05371 ? towed
AH-64D ..-.....O C co/2-159th Avn. towed in front of hangar
AH-64D 02-05(3)44□ B co/2-159th Avn. departed together with 2 AH-64D and 2 CH-47F
AH-64D (02-0530)4 O,..-..... O C co/2-159th Avn. departed together with 2 AH-64D and 2 CH-47F
CH-47F 06-08031,08-08047 B co/5-158th Avn.

As you can see 2-159 have applied company markings on their Apaches; ∆ for A co, □ for B co and O for C co. At least, that's what our conclusion was during this visit.

BR,
Jeroen

[Sjoerd]

As promissed, here's my log of Dec-27th. The info from Jeroen regarding the positioning on the ramps/matching units was fully aplicable for the below too. The below was read from left to right:

AH-64D, no mks, thought to be C/3-159th Avn: (02-05)343, (04-054)28, (04-05)433, (10-)05620 [in front of a hangar]
AH-64D, no mks, thought to be B/3-159th Avn: (03-053)61, (03-)05367, xx-xxxx48 (likely misread for 04-05446), (02-)05322 [in front of a hanger]
AH-64D, no mks, thought to be A/3-159th Avn: (99-0)5130 (likely misread for 04-05430), (02-05)311, (02-05)323, (10-)0561x (unknown to be an Illesheim a/c)
AH-64D C/2-159th Avn (marked O): (02-053)04
AH-64D B/2-159th Avn (both marked □): (03-0)5381, (09-055)80
AH-64D A/2-159th Avn (both marked ∆): (03-054)18, (0)5-7010 (serial presented as 57010)
UH-60L (no mks, thought to be C/3-158th Avn): 96-26682

Unfortunately not as much as hoped for, but I'm still happy with the result and definately have to get back there soon.

Do note that apart from a good scope, you want to have a low sun and no winds! Sun was no problem this time, but the wind was. In combination with some worn out serials and the curvuture of the tail, not all serials where read. I hope someone can help confirm the missing ones.

Cheers,

[jreijmer]

As promissed, here's my log of Dec-27th. The info from Jeroen regarding the positioning on the ramps/matching units was fully aplicable for the below too. The below was read from left to right:

AH-64D, no mks, thought to be C/3-159th Avn: (02-05)343, (04-054)28, (04-05)433, (10-)05620 [in front of a hangar]
AH-64D, no mks, thought to be B/3-159th Avn: (03-053)61, (03-)05367, xx-xxxx48 (misread for 04-05446?), (02-)05322 [in front of a hanger]
AH-64D, no mks, thought to be A/3-159th Avn: (99-0)5130, (02-05)311, (02-05)323, 10-0561x (unknown to be an Illesheim a/c)
AH-64D C/2-159th Avn: (02-053)04
AH-64D B/2-159th Avn: (03-0)5381, (09-055)80
AH-64D A/2-159th Avn: (03-054)18, (0)5-7010 (serial presented as 57010)
UH-60L (no mks, thought to be C/3-158th Avn): 96-26682

Unfortunately not as much as hoped for, but I'm still happy with the result and definately have to get back there soon.

Do note that apart from a good scope, you want to have a low sun and no winds! Sun was no problem this time, but the wind was. In combination with some worn out serials and the curvuture of the tail, not all serials where read. I hope someone can help confirm the missing ones.

Cheers,

Hello Sjoerd,
Your xx-xxxx48 could well be the 04-05446.
(99-0)5130 is very strange as this is totally out of range with the others (and was reported at Conroe AAF, TX in September according MAR). So I think this was a mispole and this could have been the 04-05430 which is an Illesheim machine.
10-0561 is also a strange one. The only one present in the FY 10 range is the 10-05620. How as the serial presented on the machine itself?

BR
Jeroen

[cis]

Sjoerd,

Can you confirm which Apaches were noted with the Company marks (triangle, circle, triangle) ?

[Sjoerd]

@ Jeroen,

I must say I remember that the light on this specific Apache was rather good, but I agree with your finding that a fy99 seems indeed a little off and 04-05430 makes more sense. The fy10 machine was indeed a great mystery. It was read as (10-)0561x. The last digit was not visible due to light conditions/curvuture of the tail. Maybe time will tell if this is a new addition/replacement.

@ CIS,

I have included the markings too of the 2-159th Avn examples (it was hard to find those ALT-codes ). All that were mentioned earlier had those markings.

Cheers,

[wilsend]

In fy 10 the only possiblity for (10)-0561? is 10-05619 and this one was according MAR 1-2012 current in dec 2011
with A/2-159 Avn at Illesheim

Groetjes Willy

[jreijmer]

In fy 10 the only possiblity for (10)-0561? is 10-05619 and this one was according MAR 1-2012

That information is already long outdated. The Apaches of Illesheim have been taken to Afghanistan and Kuwait and they recieved new ones when they returned. If you're still member of MAR, check edition May2013 which has the full correct list.

BR
Jeroen

[Eric van Lisdonk]

02-05302 AH-64D A/3-159AVN
02-05304 AH-64D C/2-159AVN ○
02-05311 AH-64D A/3-159AVN
02-05312 AH-64D /3-159AVN
02-05316 AH-64D /2-159AVN
02-05321 AH-64D /2-159AVN
02-05322 AH-64D /2-159AVN B/3-159AVN??
02-05323 AH-64D A/3-159AVN
02-05326 AH-64D A/2-159AVN ∆
02-05343 AH-64D C/3-159AVN
02-05344 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
03-05352 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
03-05353 AH-64D /2-159AVN
03-05361 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
03-05367 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
03-05371 AH-64D /2-159AVN
03-05381 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
03-05384 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
03-05389 AH-64D /2-159AVN
03-05403 AH-64D /3-159AVN
03-05418 AH-64D A/2-159AVN ∆
03-05421 AH-64D C/3-159AVN
04-05426 AH-64D /2-159AVN
04-05428 AH-64D /2-159AVN C/3-159AVN??
04-05430 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
04-05431 AH-64D /2-159AVN
04-05433 AH-64D C/3-159AVN
04-05437 AH-64D /3-159AVN
04-05439 AH-64D /3-159AVN
04-05441 AH-64D /3-159AVN
04-05442 AH-64D C/3-159AVN
04-05445 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
04-05446 AH-64D /2-159AVN
04-05453 AH-64D /3-159AVN
04-05460 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
04-05467 AH-64D /3-159AVN
05-05485 AH-64D A/2-159AVN ∆
05-07001 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
05-07010 AH-64D A/2-159AVN ∆
06-07021 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
08-05547 AH-64D /3-159AVN
08-05551 AH-64D A/3-159AVN
08-05557 AH-64D B/3-159AVN
09-05580 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
09-05581 AH-64D /2-159AVN
09-05587 AH-64D B/2-159AVN □
09-05589 AH-64D /2-159AVN
10-05620 AH-64D C/3-159AVN
∆ = A/2-159AVN
□ = B/2-159AVN
○ = C/2-159AVN

Hopefully somebody can help me with a overview which Apaches from 2-159AVN has a ∆, □, ○ on it.

Cheers,
Eric

[Oscar01]

Morning,

Is this a complete list Eric, or is this seen (outside / insinde) on a certain day?

Oscar