Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air
Forum rules
This is the forum to share your recent aviation photos with the rest of the community, being photos not older than six months at the moment of topic opening. Theme-based topics, not about recent events, should go into the sub-forum. Although we will not screen beforehand, we reserve the right to delete any images, especially if clearly unsharp or otherwise low in quality. For more information on how to upload you images, check this post. In topic titles, please use airfield names in stead of just codes, and be clear about what kind of photos your viewers can expect (e.g. CIV/MIL, location etc.). Finally, bring any photo criticism understandable and to the point, not cynical or offensive! Simultaneously, do not feel offended by criticism per se, but simply explain your motives, taste et cetera, or ignore if you wish so. |
- Mickey312
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Yes, we had fun , but boy did my legs ache when we finally got off the Skyvan after more that three hours, almost ready to !
Mickey
Mickey
- Katabatik
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
The photos are stunning, thumbs up !
I hope you realize that most of us will never get a chance to get on a plane for a photo shooting. So here is the deal : please let me tag along next time and in return I will take care of the text to accompany the pics
I hope you realize that most of us will never get a chance to get on a plane for a photo shooting. So here is the deal : please let me tag along next time and in return I will take care of the text to accompany the pics
Copyrighted by Katabatik
- Piet Luijken
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Not the best serie I have seen recently.
Some pictures are perfect, but some other could use some adjustments.
However, in my opinion, the back of the Skyvan is too small and too low to fully explore all the possibilities of air-to-air photography, leading to this surplus of 'boring head-on shots' ( not my words ).
Try to look more outside the box , like the pic by Tom.
Some pictures are perfect, but some other could use some adjustments.
However, in my opinion, the back of the Skyvan is too small and too low to fully explore all the possibilities of air-to-air photography, leading to this surplus of 'boring head-on shots' ( not my words ).
Try to look more outside the box , like the pic by Tom.
Greetings,
Piet Luijken
Scramble Editor
Piet Luijken
Scramble Editor
- Mickey312
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
So... Enlighten us Piet: What photo-ship would be better than the Skyvan? Without plexi-glass to shoot through, slow enough to shoot helicopters and bi-planes, fast enough to keep-up with jets, able to shoot subjects at any angle (head-on, top-side, belly, 90° side-shots - all angles and subjects have been posted, so you know it can be done)?Piet Luijken wrote:Not the best serie I have seen recently.
Some pictures are perfect, but some other could use some adjustments.
However, in my opinion, the back of the Skyvan is too small and too low to fully explore all the possibilities of air-to-air photography, leading to this surplus of 'boring head-on shots' ( not my words ).
Try to look more outside the box , like the pic by Tom.
And these pictures need some work... So we are going to criticize instead of share and enjoy. Well, that's going to be fun !
Katabatik, the opportunity to shoot from the Skyvan is available to everyone .
Mickey
- warthog64
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
WH64
___│ØoØ│___
Some things up!
___│ØoØ│___
Some things up!
- Piet Luijken
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Yes, indeed mickey, these were the rules I was thinking about, but there is cost of these aircraft as well.
a skyvan is a reasonably priced aircraft, so that is good but the limited rear area restricts the possible angle on aircraft, as shown in your first pic.
For instance, on a hercules, while using the ramp, the possiblities increase as the angle on aircraft is wider, in vertical and horizontal pane.
I was thinking on the mitchell myself, from the back gunport, maybe when able to use the side ports as well. Antonov28 maybe?
But i am digressing....
And...if you show your pictures here on the web, you could come across a variety of opinions on these pictures but all are meant in a constructive way, mine including. We all look for the same perfect picture, but it will be different to us all.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
a skyvan is a reasonably priced aircraft, so that is good but the limited rear area restricts the possible angle on aircraft, as shown in your first pic.
For instance, on a hercules, while using the ramp, the possiblities increase as the angle on aircraft is wider, in vertical and horizontal pane.
I was thinking on the mitchell myself, from the back gunport, maybe when able to use the side ports as well. Antonov28 maybe?
But i am digressing....
And...if you show your pictures here on the web, you could come across a variety of opinions on these pictures but all are meant in a constructive way, mine including. We all look for the same perfect picture, but it will be different to us all.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Greetings,
Piet Luijken
Scramble Editor
Piet Luijken
Scramble Editor
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
I flew already in quite a number of photoships with an open cargo ramp, and the Skyvan is actually the best photoplatform. It does have the tunneleffect indeed, but wer are perfectly able to make 90 degrees side-on shots....
The C-130 has an incredible cost, a wider angle yes, but also a very low and visible heathaze zone ( way lower than the Skyvan ) max. speed is identical, only the Skyvan can fly a lot slower.
In a B-25 you can only take ( at most ) two photographers from the gunner position; visible brownish heathaze as well, and altough your angle is almost 180 degrees, it's for a big part useless because of the position of the engines, and their hot airstreams. Sidepositions are no option at all, completely in the haze of the nearby engines. So it's actually a very costly solution for a2a work.
I'm happy to try the Antonov, anyone here has one ?
Greetz, Eric
The C-130 has an incredible cost, a wider angle yes, but also a very low and visible heathaze zone ( way lower than the Skyvan ) max. speed is identical, only the Skyvan can fly a lot slower.
In a B-25 you can only take ( at most ) two photographers from the gunner position; visible brownish heathaze as well, and altough your angle is almost 180 degrees, it's for a big part useless because of the position of the engines, and their hot airstreams. Sidepositions are no option at all, completely in the haze of the nearby engines. So it's actually a very costly solution for a2a work.
I'm happy to try the Antonov, anyone here has one ?
Greetz, Eric
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Dear Eric, Piet and all others,
Coming to aid of the private airline of the Aviation Photo Crew; when you are "only" able to use an air-to-air platform as the Skyvan, An-26, C-130, KC-135 etc, one is very limited in what you can do. Not only the "boring" head-on shots pose a problem but also you depend very much to what the pilots are wiling/daring to do for you. When you are able to change photo ships from cargo to fighters or trainers and back is the best solution, however, both have their limitations. Photographing through plexiglass has its problems but it comes with no limitations with regard to airspeed and capabilities but limits to you to what photo equipment you can use. I have flown the ramp on a large variety of occasions and I have to note that personally I did become bored as well and thinking out of the box while on the ramp is difficult e.g., noise, no communication etc.. Air-to-air photography looks very easy form the pictures but is actually quite difficult to organize and to do. In either both ways, one has to take risks with regard to shutter speeds and aperture settings.
For Mickey; as noted in one of Eric's other posts, it is as shame that one can not criticize the work of others. When you post on this media, expect to receive comments: positive and negative! That is also what sharing is about. If you can only endure slimy comments, don't use this site!!
Good luck to all,
CJ
Coming to aid of the private airline of the Aviation Photo Crew; when you are "only" able to use an air-to-air platform as the Skyvan, An-26, C-130, KC-135 etc, one is very limited in what you can do. Not only the "boring" head-on shots pose a problem but also you depend very much to what the pilots are wiling/daring to do for you. When you are able to change photo ships from cargo to fighters or trainers and back is the best solution, however, both have their limitations. Photographing through plexiglass has its problems but it comes with no limitations with regard to airspeed and capabilities but limits to you to what photo equipment you can use. I have flown the ramp on a large variety of occasions and I have to note that personally I did become bored as well and thinking out of the box while on the ramp is difficult e.g., noise, no communication etc.. Air-to-air photography looks very easy form the pictures but is actually quite difficult to organize and to do. In either both ways, one has to take risks with regard to shutter speeds and aperture settings.
For Mickey; as noted in one of Eric's other posts, it is as shame that one can not criticize the work of others. When you post on this media, expect to receive comments: positive and negative! That is also what sharing is about. If you can only endure slimy comments, don't use this site!!
Good luck to all,
CJ
- Mickey312
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Hi CJ,
The problem with criticism is that, in my experience, it always turns ugly. That's why on many of the more pleasurable fora (like Scramble), criticism is kept to a minimum. What struck me in this case is that a moderator started his reply by criticizing pictures that are, let's say, not not too bad. That triggered my response. I don't need my ego boosted by positive comments, the best compliment someone can give me is "Thank you for sharing". If someone wants to be constructive in their criticism, they ought to be specific and give hints as to how to improve the results though, not just say that things can be improved.
I've directed some Skyvan photo-flights during the air-to-air academy last year and had no problems with communications over the intercom. It's much harder just sitting there and trying to catch a break or a flare being popped like it was for me on this flight. A proper briefing beforehand ensures no surprises during the flight and if pilots are comfortable, a lot of maneuvering can be arranged, even with flares, as you can see. Safety first though!
I'm not bored shooting from the Skyvan yet and I hope a lot of other photographers will enjoy air-to-air photo-ops during the coming season and beyond. Everyone knows who to contact by now.
And CJ, please share your (air-to-air) pictures!
Mickey (by the way, the only picture I took in this thread is the L-39 break in my post on this page)
The problem with criticism is that, in my experience, it always turns ugly. That's why on many of the more pleasurable fora (like Scramble), criticism is kept to a minimum. What struck me in this case is that a moderator started his reply by criticizing pictures that are, let's say, not not too bad. That triggered my response. I don't need my ego boosted by positive comments, the best compliment someone can give me is "Thank you for sharing". If someone wants to be constructive in their criticism, they ought to be specific and give hints as to how to improve the results though, not just say that things can be improved.
I've directed some Skyvan photo-flights during the air-to-air academy last year and had no problems with communications over the intercom. It's much harder just sitting there and trying to catch a break or a flare being popped like it was for me on this flight. A proper briefing beforehand ensures no surprises during the flight and if pilots are comfortable, a lot of maneuvering can be arranged, even with flares, as you can see. Safety first though!
I'm not bored shooting from the Skyvan yet and I hope a lot of other photographers will enjoy air-to-air photo-ops during the coming season and beyond. Everyone knows who to contact by now.
And CJ, please share your (air-to-air) pictures!
Mickey (by the way, the only picture I took in this thread is the L-39 break in my post on this page)
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Absolutely agree on that one! All photoships have pro's and con's ; I have flown the jetstuff as well ( will make some posts later ) but their is the limitation speed as well, as they can not go slow enough for some of the anglesAlfakilo 03 wrote:Dear Eric, Piet and all others,
Coming to aid of the private airline of the Aviation Photo Crew; when you are "only" able to use an air-to-air platform as the Skyvan, An-26, C-130, KC-135 etc, one is very limited in what you can do. Not only the "boring" head-on shots pose a problem but also you depend very much to what the pilots are wiling/daring to do for you. When you are able to change photo ships from cargo to fighters or trainers and back is the best solution, however, both have their limitations. Photographing through plexiglass has its problems but it comes with no limitations with regard to airspeed and capabilities but limits to you to what photo equipment you can use. I have flown the ramp on a large variety of occasions and I have to note that personally I did become bored as well and thinking out of the box while on the ramp is difficult e.g., noise, no communication etc.. Air-to-air photography looks very easy form the pictures but is actually quite difficult to organize and to do. In either both ways, one has to take risks with regard to shutter speeds and aperture settings.
For Mickey; as noted in one of Eric's other posts, it is as shame that one can not criticize the work of others. When you post on this media, expect to receive comments: positive and negative! That is also what sharing is about. If you can only endure slimy comments, don't use this site!!
Good luck to all,
CJ
Hey CJ, but I am curious just as Mickey here to see some of you air-to-air work. please share some pictures with us.
greetz, Eric
- JS50557
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Very nice pics Eric!!
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing.
- Key
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Topic slightly edited to comply with our simple rules.
Erik - enjoying the photos and the shared experiences
Erik - enjoying the photos and the shared experiences
What four words, Jimmy!?!
- Warthog 71
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
Really like the photos!
Non head-on shots look like this
Grtz,
Marcel
Non head-on shots look like this
Grtz,
Marcel
Assumption is the mother of all f#ckups...
- Polecat
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Re: Royal Netherlands Airforce, Air2Air boooring head-on report
do you have Pucara's head-on as well...?
Much time is spent here debating all kind of personal preferences.. I think most people here on the forums would do really strange things to get the chance to make A-A shots, being head-on or from the side...
For me, I don't care, I think almost all A-A positions (like ground/landing shots) shown here have their own kind of charm. Last thing people should do is try to convert their own preferences in a ranking..
Much time is spent here debating all kind of personal preferences.. I think most people here on the forums would do really strange things to get the chance to make A-A shots, being head-on or from the side...
For me, I don't care, I think almost all A-A positions (like ground/landing shots) shown here have their own kind of charm. Last thing people should do is try to convert their own preferences in a ranking..
I have never drunk milk, and I never will . . . .