About this forum

[Iwan Bogels]

Hi Mickey,

Thanks for sharing the link to Fence Check. I know there are more websites dedicated to the (creative) photograpy side of aviation. And I do visit these websites every now and then.

But to me Scramble is more than just a spotters website. It's a place where I meet friends and fellow hobbyists from the same area (Netherlands and surroundings) and where the common factor is the (west) European photo experience. And although people from all over the world are more than welcome to participate at Scramble, the atmosphere is very Dutch.

It's like comparing the regional Leidsch Dagblad to the national Volkskrant. Both newspapers contain mainstream news from all over the world, but the Leidsch Dagblad feature a lot more things that touch my own personal daily life.

Therefor I very much like to plea to keep things as they are. A bit of both worlds of aviation photography, and a place where experienced photographers and newbies can show their work side by side.

Cheers,
Iwan

[Key]

Interesting views, chaps. Thanks for sharing, I keep on learning and we keep on evaluating.

Erik

[Mad Viper]

O, now we have for the same day a topic for regulars and...specials....Come on guys!
Next time we have a rain and snow topic for the same day....

Rgds, Ger

And another thing is: where are we going to draw the line about what is a regular and not. People putting regulars as and extra title inthe topic title. But with photos, that are, in my eyes, no regulars for Schiphol? So where are we going to draw the line, what is de definition of a regular?

And then we have the group that only try to take the plane from it's most photogenic side/angle, and always try to put some drama in their picture (in this case the picture itself is just as important, if not, more important then the actual plane). Topics like this, will from now on be subscribed in a somewhat different way (date followed by the name of the airfield, regulars). These are the daily visitors to Schiphol, but somehow photographed in nice weather conditions (and i don't mean blue sky's) or with some nice action and drama in it. Which means that for that last group of photographers, we got more work to do, cause we have to divide our regulars from our specials that we have shot in one day, and have to place them in two different topics, but that is just fine by us, as long as everybody is happy right....

Then I wonder, where does this group has to stash their photo if it are regulars? Because they are the not-regular type of photos you see at Schiphol, you might think that putting them in a regular topic will degrade the speciality of the photo. People that are bored of regulars will not view the schiphol topic with regulars, and if people with artistic photos place them there, they can lose viewers. Viewers that otherwise will praise the photo for its beauty.

So another increase in topics of the same say? Regulars, Visitors and Artistic? And then the question will remain, which photo where and with what rules?

Some question you gonna get: MIL and CIV seperate topic when it comes to visitors? And is an RNLAF A/C a regular or visitor? And when becomes an visitor a regular? Is a Skyteam, Oneworld or Star Alliance coloured plane a visitor of a regular. Bizjets, regular or visitor. Leased planes for short period (couple of weeks/months) of time, for instance foreign TRA planes, regulars or visitors? When does a photo qualify as an artistic photo.

From what I see you will need a instruction manual explaining this, before starting to post photos.

And will the remarks about boring photos end with dividing the photos? Cause I think that youngsters that just starting to shoot aircraft will probably have regular photos of regular visitors. Then they are happy to show them and then they get shout at because they shot boring photos.

I think that some people think to easy about the change, And don't see the bigger picture in how they can fill in the blanks that are created by changing the principles.

[ErwinS]

Not much going around on the airfields these days if I check this forum... How comes....
Well enjoy all the pictures here gents I've had it with all this chatter.

It seems there is one front and that consists of photographers only.... And there is no arguing whit them as it seems.

[nustyR]

Not much going around on the airfields these days if I check this forum... How comes....

Last week at AMS;
EVA 773
2 x IL96
Centurion MD-11
Saudi MD-11
Veteran 74 classic

It seems there is one front and that consists of photographers only.... And there is no arguing whit them as it seems.

We did split the AMS topics in 2 parts so people like you couldn't get provoked by ' our' kind of photos. Give it a try, the test is only 4 days old right now..............

[ErwinS]

Last week at AMS;
EVA 773
2 x IL96
Centurion MD-11
Saudi MD-11
Veteran 74 classic

I know but where are the pictures???
I have some of them but are they appriciated??

[nustyR]

I know but where are the pictures???
I have some of them but are they appriciated??

I've posted some ( of the mentioned aircraft ) with different comments ( negative and positive ).

I have some of them but are they appriciated??

Remember your Antonov shot, I stressed a lot to get to the airport in time, I was there at the right moment but not in the right place and missed her completely ( I was trying an arty farty Antonov ). Congrats you made it, a lot of people on this board don't have the time or opportunity we ( and some other lucky people ) both have. It's just live Erwin, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose

[Polecat]

I know but where are the pictures???
I have some of them but are they appriciated??

If you appreciate them yourself, the answer is already yes...

What would u suggest, start a poll first to see if a mjority wants to see them at all?
Just post them and two things will happen:
a. a number of people don't care and scroll further down
b. a number of people will like them and may even post a compliment to you

how hard can it be....

[dj_ad]

I know but where are the pictures???
I have some of them but are they appriciated??

Quiet some pictures split into several topics. Maybe not so much as normal
but can't blame anyone for that considering weather conditions..Compliments
to the guys who took the road and treated us with nice pictures of last days.

And why shouldn't your pictures be appriciated?..speaking for myself I surelly do,
especially as you seem in the conditions to take pictures in quiet un-obstructed
(air-side)conditions.

Just post them and two things will happen:
a. a number of people don't care and scroll further down
b. a number of people will like them and may even post a compliment to you

AMEN....

[Key]

From what I see you will need a instruction manual explaining this, before starting to post photos.

No you don't. Stop thinking in problems please, think in solutions. Re-read my last post on the current policy and try to think of how we make it work instead of how we can keep coming up with reasons to complain.

Well enjoy all the pictures here gents I've had it with all this chatter.

It seems there is one front and that consists of photographers only.... And there is no arguing whit them as it seems.

You are the only making absolute statements like this AFAIK...

I have some of them but are they appriciated??

Let me get this straight. You have the kind of photos you think are most important to this forum but you won't post them because others keep on posting shots of a different kind? What do you want? Us begging to show your photos of the really special visitors? I'd love to see them, but I'm not going to ask.

Gents, we have now talked this over and over again, and I have explained what we can do (and what we will not do).
Most of the crowd do not even see a problem, the discussion is among a very small number of people and even then we do our best to keep all happy.
Many of those involved are fully co-operating.
If the few who are still not happy will not accept the current situation, I regard that as their problem, not mine.

Good luck,
Erik

[Mad Viper]

Stop thinking in problems please, think in solutions.

I want to but like I said before, it will not be easy. Why, cause pleasing everybody will not be easy. You just can separate it, but where lies the boundaries of the split, which photo goes where, hence the large amount of question? This isn't work for 1 day, you need serious thinking on how to set the boundaries and definition. Without it it will simply be a mess.

I like to think in solution, but first you need to face the problem, then you can start thinking in solution, otherwise it will be one big mess even bigger then now. And I just summed up some of those problems. I can only stop thinking in problems when something solid is given as an standard to work with.

Re-read my last post on the current policy and try to think of how we make it work instead of how we can keep coming up with reasons to complain.

I don't complain, I too want a solution, but I just summed up things you can bump into (repeating the above). Cause only some text without going in detail will still raise questions, questions that will have to be answered by the poster himself for the greater part, but will be a lot easier with some help of some guidelines. So don't see my post as a complaint but more like a heads-up of what you can expect that can cause some difficulty or challenges here, and can heat up the discussion even more, rather then subsiding it. Cause eventually you want to close this discussion with a clear cut solution that most people are happy with, cause everyone happy will be an utopia.

I don't mind that people provide better info in the topic title, just make sure that that info corresponds to the content of that topic. Cause that will make it a lot easier and enjoyable to watch.

[Key]

I don't mind that people provide better info in the topic title, just make sure that that info corresponds to the content of that topic.

Most definitely! And the more general the indication (like 'regulars in snow', 'interesting visitors') the better this will work.

Michel, I appreciate your efforts, and especially the trouble you just took to explain your point of view. Still, I feel we should leave detail to be no more important than it is, and focus on the main structure. On this message board, we try and define as little as we can in detail, while maintaining some sort of formula that works, can be understood by everyone and be maintained. I repeat: the Photo forum is a playground, not something exact like a database (and not even like the Spotting forums).
If it turns out the proposed way of posting does not work (for instance because finding the right topic title turns out to be too hard), chances are we will just revert to no guideline at all. After all, everybody is able to skip photos he/she is not interested in, and everybody is entitled to start a new topic in this forum. Basically, that covers all needs. All the rest is luxury for one and extra work for another.


Erik

[Glidepath]

making a topic for sun, rain and snow on One single day, like mentioned above, is an idea to be considered.....
and for EHAM: why not use locals (instead of regulars), meaning KLM, Trans & Mart.

21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-Sun
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-Snow
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-Rain
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-overcast
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-creative
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-a wee bit unsharp
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-real photographers
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-Sun
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-Snow
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-Rain
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-creative
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only- wee bit unsharp
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-real photographers
21-12-2010 EHAM Visitors only-Overcast
plus
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-negativism, harsh bashing critism & blunt remarks as well as grumpy old sod styled nagging welcome.
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-well mannered comments of all kind welcome
21-12-2010 EHAM Locals only-postive comments welcome.
etc etc

Catch my drift?

<<overdrijf-mode off.>>

[Iwan Bogels]

Dear people,

It's amusing to read this thread. To many people there is no problem. The suggested problem seems to be only in the heads of some people, juding by the number of participating members in this topic. What happens is that some people like to fully shape the forum to their own needs and preferences without bothering about the needs and preferences of fellow hobbyists.

Just a question: Do you also complain to the Volkskrant, Algemeen Dagblad and de Telegraaf about the amount of volleybal, hockey and basketball news between the football items ? Or whine about the complete sections of "Vrouw" and "prive", which don't interest you at all ?

Mixed topics don't disable you from uploading / viewing the photos that you do like yourself. You will just have to go through some more imput that you don't bother about. Please stop claiming this forum for your own purposes only. We have had plenty of discussions about splitting civil and military, numbers and photos and so on, and in the end Scramble preferred to be a magazine and forum for all aviation hobbyists.

Let's keep it that way.....

Cheers,
Iwan

[Mad Viper]

Still, I feel we should leave detail to be no more important than it is, and focus on the main structure. On this message board, we try and define as little as we can in detail, while maintaining some sort of formula that works, can be understood by everyone and be maintained.

Amen to that, it is good to have some details. But like you're are saying to much detail isn't going to work like you want. The only challenge for me is to see if most of the people here can give the same detail to the guidelines, so that it will be easy to see the difference in the topics.

@Glidepath; That was one of the things I was afraid of, that it is starting to get out of control at some point. But I have confidence that it will play out well. Cause when it comes too such a list of one day, the moderators will soon intervene. It's also the responsibility of the posters to keep it controlled and even more important, think before placing the photos in a topic.

I'll stop now with remarks. Think we reached the end of the line and that it is better to just see how it will play out.