Finally evidence of Japanese F-4EJ's in Germany, 80-ties

[doubleugly]

good evening to you all.

Aphter several items published here about the presence of 2 Japanes F-4EJ's at Pferdsfeld in 1984, I phinally got photo proof (bad quality, but better shots are asked phor)/story proof phrom German phriends. I already received eye-witness proof some time ago by a phormer German F-4 crewchief, having seen a Japanese phlag at the maingate during that period at Pferdsfeld and the 2 Phantoms phrom a distance.
They phlew over the Northpole in a 8 hour phlight, being air-air refueled 9 times. It has been a large Japanese delegation which visited Germany. In short they phlew back via Goose-Bay. It seems that they (sadly only crews) even participated together with the German pilots in the Tactical Air meet 1984 held at Twenthe AB!
Small pictures showed the official hoisting of the Japanese phlag, a crewtalk between the Japanese en German pilots and phinally a picture of one of the F-4EJ's of 302 Hikotai phrom Hokkaido with nose serial 434
I want to show you more clear shots you please have patience. But proof in now there!

[blu109]

It seems that in the 80s also f-15s from japen have visited jever. Some spotters from leeuwarden have seen a picture off 2 f-15 at jever that time. Maybe somebody with more info?

[Hans Rolink]

But I remain sceptical to say the least.
I have been a Scramble subscriber from before that time and can not remember the excitement that this would have caused, even 25 years ago.
A prank by our German friends? Don't underestimate Japanese sensitivities towards expansionism, even an innocent looking deployment. Sorry to throw cold water over this, but I fear it's a hoax...

Hans.

[scuderia]

All

If i remember correctly, the pre KAI modification Japanese Phantoms, had NO a2a capability(The Japanese thought that it didn't fit in there strategy, about self defence). This was reinstalled with the Kai modification. The first squadron deliveries of the F-4EJ-Kai was in the late 80's.(1989)

Fred

[ricardo smit]

keep in mind that the japanese F4 and F15 had no working airrefuellling system aboard during those days[dates back from the second world war].

so that must have been a very long trip with countless stopovers.

[evhest]

Santa Claus also overflies the North pole....

Anyone with a little bit of knowlegde about Japan post World War II, would know that this story is simply not true.

[doubleugly]

What a "negative"replies guys. i can imagine that you can not believe this in that political envirement. but those things happened; japanese F-4's to Germany, even F-15's (prove still had to be found, but the special signed drawings were present in the Starfighter-bar at jever AB!. israeli f-4 in the paint shop at jever. Witnessd by eyesight. So guys who do not believe this keep dreaming that. I phinally phound prove. And how they did it with a-a refuelling. Just wait I will phind out phor you guys. I have photo-prove.

[Hans Rolink]

Besides, TAM84 was held at Gilze-Rijen.
Anyway, just through how much trouble do you think the likes of Erich Söderbier would have gone to secure their precious K25's, which no doubt would still be on the market to this day. All you have seen are images of F-4EJ's.
Post them anyway, maybe we can see if they have been shot at Hyakuri, Nyutabaru, Komatsu, Tsuiki or any other base.

Hans.

[doubleugly]

As I mentioned earlier the pictures are copied (mabye several times). But I asked for originals, so be patience. But on the picture so can see the Japanese F-4 and in the background a JaBo-35 F-4. You can see the pictures too on flugzeugforum-> jets. Together with the stories of former Luftwaffe guys about this phabulous event.
I am trying to find info with the historians on Goose Bay in their movements from that year!

[nilsko]

Complete topic at Fleugzuegforum is at http://www.flugzeugforum.de/forum/showt ... Pferdsfeld" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are some (very hazy) pics showing Japanse F-4's and a camo F-4 in the background, but it doesn't show which nationality. Also the "Pferdsfelder Kirche" (church) is said to be in the background. I have never been to Pferdsfeld so I can't confirm this to be an authentic picture. But reading the topic further it is mentioned Japanse officers did visit the base, but without the F-4's.

Draw your own conclusions..

I find it all very weird, but on the other hand, there was no Internet back then and even with all the Scramble's, BAR's, MAR's etcetera around some info could have slipped the fingers and networks of spottercommunities present in the 80's. (Although some info might have not been shared for various reasons) But I'd assume this info would be known/rumoured. I don't know how popular Pferdsfeld was and if it even had its own spotterscommunity.

[scuderia]

Hi,

Saw the picture on flugzeugforum but I still think it's a hoax!!
According to a small article, in were the picture is published the 2 Japanese F-4EJ's visited Pferdsfeld in the beginning
of January 1983.
The photo shows a Japanese F4 and "German" F4 in bright sunshine. The groundcrew of the Japanese F4 are working in "only" shirts a little bit strange in the middle of winter!

Fred

check: http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/Pfer ... 106260.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Highest temp in January 1983, 11 dgs, lowest min 6 dgs and in the first 3 weeks of January only 3 days with NO rain and in one of those 3 days it snowed.

[Arjan]

And even then, what could have been the reason for visiting Germany? To celebrate the old ties from before the war, I doubt if they want to be reminded of that even if the Americans would have let them. To get familiar with other Phantom users and why didn't they visit more countries other than Germany? Or was it to make a historical flight across the pole, which it certainly would have been and why is there so few publication about this then.
Such a flight must have certainly crossed USSR territory for which permission must have extremely hard to be obtained, also because the Russians would have had history in their mind or via the US / Alaska. Such a flight alone is allready worth mentioning and it slipped past everyone?

Besides that, a few years ago the Japanese Air Force took part in American exercises and by American KC's dragging those F-15's over the pond was considered by both countries an event. Why now and not 30 years ago? Why did they keep it silent?

I mean I don't want to say it didn't happen. I don't know and I certainly can't prove it, but it certainly is a strange story.

[Hans Rolink]

According to http://www.bad-sobernheim.de/gemeinden/pferdsfeld" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the church of Pferdsfeld was blown up on 26 January 1984. The church is visible in the image at http://www.flugzeugforum.de/forum/showt ... eld&page=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This puts the said visit of the JASDF Phantoms before that date.
I keep finding this all very strange. The thread at Flugzeugforum is full of uncertanties as well.

Hans.

[Richard from Rotterdam]

If a Japanese deployment to Germany had taken place, this would certainly have been well publicised by the German ministry of defence and it would certainly have drawn full media attention in Germany and abroad.

And - it would have been known in the spottersworld accordingly. So I find it still quite an unbelievable story.

[Venz]

Can someone post the pictures on this forum? Now they're hidden behind a username/password at Flugzeugforum.